I'm still waiting on this month's Rice check to arrive. Are any Rice or Gulfport royalty recipients using direct deposit for their monthly royalty checks? The Rice check that was mailed in early January took 21 days to reach me. It was postmarked Jan 6th but didn't end up in my mailbox until January 27th. I'm wondering if using the direct deposit route I will still receive a statement showing production.
As near as I can discover, none of Rice royalty owners have received pymts for Dec 2016 production, due tnis month. We also have generally received our pymts by the end of the 1st wk or beginning of 2nd wk of month for the past year, although Rice's landowner guide does state that royalty pymts are made midmonth, 2 mos following the end of the production month. Thinking Rice has made pymts early as a general rule and we are nervous when a pymt gets closer to being on time or - Lord forbid - late. I have checked with many other Rice royalty owners in different units and it is company wide so likely more due to it being the year end pymt (production) and additional bookkeeping. If pymts are delayed more than a week past midmonth, I would be more concerned. Happy Rice has been so reliable that this much of a delay causes worry. Hoping to see statement in email before end of week.
Rice has had my well in Springhill Township Pa. Curtailed for almost 2 yrs. Last Nov.2016 they said it was opened again and I would get a check in Feb..no check then it was suppose to be March 8...Still no check and I have direct deposit. Finally got email saying they made a mistake it was Dec. It was opened back up and I should get a check for Dec. and Jan. before the end of month, if it's over 50 dollars. I used to get 800 to 1,200 a month from CHK when they drilled it before selling to Rice. Rice said that CHK over paid on this well money that belonged to Wv well owners????? Its the Michael McNicholas Well Gr8 Pa. I've just about gave up been told so many different tales.
We have a no deductions lease and it has been honored, with no deductions taken to date.
Also, re: direct deposit, you get a statement directly to your email and deposit follows within 24-36 hrs, depending on your bank. (I've found that mine likes to hold it a day before crediting it.) Statements are complete in PDF format that you can save electronically and print for hard copy records.
Rice stated today(hotline call) that checks were delayed due to overload in accounting department caused by the acquisition of Vantage Energy, the group they bought all the Greene County holdings from. Said checks were due to be mailed this week. We have "no deductions" clause - It has held to date.
Thanks. We are signed with Rice, but so far, no well. Most feedback that I get about them is pretty positive, we hope that will be the case. We read about soo many horror stories from other companies concerning deductions. Also, would anyone be able to share what they receive in royalties per acre, and how much that amount drops over time? I have heard the Rice wells don't seem to drop down as quickly as some other drillers
Royalties are based on a lot of different factors including your lease terms, such as your percentage (minimum in PA is 12.5%), size of your unit, production from well pad that month, etc, but biggest factor is the selling price of gas that particular production month and that can vary from day to day. Selling prices in our area are lower than the national average because gas companies are restricted to a local market area where gas production is glutted, due to no way to get the gas out to other higher paying markets. Rice has done a fair job of getting as much as they can for gas produced but it is at an all time low here. Infrastructure expansion (pipelines) to move the product is vital in our neck of the woods. We're probably averaging less than half of the national avg for our gas sales here.
Lori, I don't necessarily agree with your statement that "Rice has done a fair job of getting as much as they can for gas produced". Point of fact is that Rice has consistently paid less than their partner, Gulfport and also less than some of the other producers in our area. But they have been good about hedging their own prices. Unfortunately, we don't benefit from that.
I've seen the exact opposite. I'm in a unit where there is roughly a 48/52% split with GPOR having the 52% and Rice having 48. My Rice checks have all been considerably higher than the GPOR checks, even with Rice having a smaller percentage of the unit.
Check the prices that you got last month (for November production). Gulfport paid $2.13/mcf while Rice only paid $1.91. I have attached a file showing the prices for the last 2 years for both companies compared to Henry Hub. Whooops, apparently you can't attach an excel file on this website.
GPOR shows $2.13 and Rice shows $1.83 on my statements for 11/16. Rice shows they sold a little more gas than GPOR did but paid me double what GPOR did. I'm not liking what I'm seeing here. GPOR must be taking deductions? I have a S-G lease with Rice that should not have deductions. GPOR actually drilled the well in this unit so it is one of the Rice/GPOR joint venture wells. I need to get all this production charted side by side so I can make better sense of it.
Your comments are more true than not, I'm sorry to say. I watch sale prices other companies are getting; some with deduction/some without, however from what I'm told, it's still like playing the market and who can get the better sale a particular day. Having fewer buyers in a much smaller market makes getting the best price pretty much luck. Also true that Rice hedged their portion of sales giving them a higher sale price but also a risk if and when infrastructure improves and prices go up due to more available mkts. They will still be stuck at their hedged pricing. If given the opportunity (which we weren't), we would have definitely turned down an offer to hedge sale prices, even if it meant taking lower sales royalties while prices are down. They will, inevitably, go up and locking yourself out of a potential increase is risky. Drilling companies need to make their investments back quickly as possible in order to continue expanding their operations and hedging seems a more economically sound practice in their circumstances. As a land/royalty owner I personally would prefer to keep the options open and not risk potential loss of a mkt increase. As far as Rice's record on avg monthly sale prices, they have rarely been below the county avg and I don't think ever below the state avg so its hard to complain. Remembering that sales is based on daily marketing when they may get $2.95 one day from a customer and then $1.95 the next from another, puts it into perspective. Also, in watching prices gotten from other drillers, it's impossible to know how many mcf's they sold at that price or what markets they are accessible to. As land/royalty owners, our best hope is that supply lines go in as quickly as possible for a more competitive market for our gas to be sold in. I don't envy Rice for their hedged pricing. It keeps them operating in the black and that's good for all of us. I would be more upset if I'd hedged and locked in a price, only to see the mkt climb and be stuck with say, $3.53 mcf, and buyers were paying $4.95. It's all about perspective.
finnbear, they are public record but a pain to get to via DEP and county O&G sites so I have relied on my membership with marcellusgas.org, which offers crowd sourced pricing per location and gas co, as well as other info incl production figures and other vital data. Saves you the legwork. It's a decent non-profit site I can heartily recommend to compliment this site.
Producers sell their gas in the physical markets. But they hedge their prices in the financial markets. This guarantees them getting the price they agree to in the hedge. There is always a winner and a loser in the financial market hedge depending if gas prices are higher or lower than the futures price when the derivative expires. Producers settle these derivatives with cash and not the commodity. But the producer can then actually sell their gas at the market price in the physical markets. I keep asking the producers if they ever sell actual futures to buyers in the physical markets but they tell me they don't. That is unfortunate for us because our lease states that we can't receive a lower price than the producer. So, if they got a higher price based on delivery of actual gas rather than a cash settlement, they would owe us the higher price.
k22; I have no doubt that they do everything they can to come out as ahead as possible. It's a business and they're in it to make a profit. I have seen some seriously dirty treatment of landowners by a few gas companies that, while legal (in most cases), is still just not right. I know what you are talking about and I believe may have similar language in our lease. We've discussed this topic at some lengths with friends in our unit with the same questions (and the same non-answers from questions to company). All in all, I really don't have a complaint right now. Our lease gives us full access to audit - particularly with discrepancy in payments, prices or following lease terms - so if we ever feel we're being taken for a ride, we wouldn't hesitate to exercise the right. Agree that there are definitely some questions that aren't readily answered and probably because the landowner wouldn't necessarily be too happy. With not much more than a gut feeling, though, I doubt that they are doing anything that isn't within their rights (even if it does favor them more than the landowner).
Thank you everyone for info, it's an interesting topic. I wish there were more discussions of this caliber on the G & O sites. I guess the one thing we can all say is, it's a complicated subject, and each lease is different.
Rice sells only a very small portion of the Royalty owner gas on the daily market (approx 15%) the remainder is sold on what is called "first of month" which has less fluctuation but depending on demand you may not get the nice upward price spikes. A lot of the price variations is not on gas prices day-to-day it is the marketing strategy between the companies in terms of transportation. Rice does not buy all firm transportation for their gas a good percentage of their transportation is not firm so that also causes fluctuations. A lot of factors go into gas prices...
Lori, I have to also disagree with your statement that the gas in our area is currently at an all time low. Within the last week Dominion Southpoint is only lagging behind by 15 cents vs Henry Hub. During the gas price downturn in Feb 2017 Dominion Southpoint was lagging in the 30-35 cents range vs. Henry Hub. Since Nov 2016 Dominion Southpoint gas pricing has stayed in the range of 30-35 cents or less. Prior to Nov 2016 Dominion Southpoint would lag as much as a $1 or so compared to Henry Hub. This month's royalty check (March) for Dec 2016 from Rice will be closely watched due to the spike in gas prices in Mid Nov 2016 timeframe which extended into late Jan 2017. I was not happy with the Nov 2016 gas price for our Jan checks of $1.87. I can tell you prices for Dec gas being paid by other gas companies in the area are:
XTO: Dec gas price paid from well pad near German Ridge area was $2.76 vs $1.53 in Nov, very nice price increase.
Eclipse: Paid Dec gas price: $3.29 range, no data for Nov gas due to royalty owners first check, well located just outside of Clarington Ohio.
Unfortunately I am royalty owner that Rice is taking transportation deducts in the range of 20% based on $2 gas. For that 20% charge to supposedly move my gas to a more lucrative market better be reflected in higher paid Dec gas price.
I just finished updating my spreadsheet (graph attached) which compares daily hub pricing for the Henry Hub & Dominion Southpoint (located near Cannonsburg PA). I have been told the Dom SP hub should closely follow our monthly gas pricing paid to us. As I stated earlier Dom SP hub pricing started coming much closer in pricing vs Henry Hub in Nov 2016 timeframe. Also as can be seen the spread became even closer in early March 2017. I will periodically update this graph so everyone can hopefully have some idea where our paid monthly gas pricing is going. Please remember this is daily pricing and I was told Rice only sells a small percentage of the Royalty owner gas on the daily market with a majority on "first of month". I will work on tracking first of month pricing in the future to see if it may give some better data.
Ohiobuck, this is all great info - thank you. We have been fortunate to have a dry gas unit (or maybe not, given prices?) which makes some difference in our market. No liquids or processing and product goes straight to buyer - pipeline to pipeline - with no processing. Although we have a no deductions lease, transportation costs would be for use of 3rd party pipelines. None the less, I would think that Dominion Southpoint pricing would still be an appropriate determining factor in pricing, regardless. My main comparison of market has been based on EIA postings of Nat Gas avgs, (based mainly on Henry Hub). Agree that it bears watching sale prices for Dec 2016 production for a lot of reasons, not the least of which was weather trends and higher gas demand even in our over saturated mkt. Appreciate all of the great info. It will be interesting to see how it pans out once Rice gets its accounting dept act together and sends out the Dec 2016 statements and checks. I would be interested to see comments on prices based on all of the valuable info posted on this thread.
Keep in mind as more coal fired power plants are shut down and new gas fired power plants are put online the demand for gas in our region and through out the east & midwest will drive up day-to-day demand above and beyond weather related price spikes. Also there are more and more routes opening up to move the gas out of this region which should normalize gas prices here near the Henry Hub pricing. Rice can currently move gas to the Chicago region and areas down near the henry Hub. Just this week the Carolina hub pricing was in the $5 range due to cooler temperatures and the large number of recently installed gas fired power plants that Duke Power and Southern Company now have online which causes a large demand for natural gas. We (here in this area) have to get out of the mind set our gas sits in a price depressed region due to a glut of gas. As long as there are no long periods of mild temperatures the prices here should closely track the Henry Hub prices. We have to be diligent with learning these facts so we can ask Rice, Gulfport and others the tough questions when we feel we may be getting shorted. The main thing is we (all royalty owners) have to stick together and make sure we are getting our fair share we are owed for our children and grandchildren benefit in the future.
Have you ever looked at the company`s analyst presentation for
stock holders and investors, they always refer to NYMEX pricing
for gas sales, how many are not getting paid for the liquids
that are produced from theses wells, each month they test the
gas at each well to determine btu and liquid content, gas companies
get paid on the mmbtu of the gas not the mcf produced
The gas wells in my immediate area (Belmont county ohio) is a "dry" gas region so there are no liquids. Due to this fact the drilling activity is high because they do not have to deal with liquids and it goes straight to market. My royalty payment stub has a correction factor listed to account for the adjustment to btu. I believe last month it was 1.069.
We also have dry gas, here, with no liquids or processing necessary. Gas goes from well to compressor station to supply line. Only transportation costs Rice would pay for our dry gas would be use of 3rd party pipelines. Very interested in expanded market area now available to Rice, as well as pricing at Dominion Southpoint hub and prices other local gas companies are getting. If our sales dept isn't getting comparable it is definitely time for landowners to ask why.
Just for everyone's info, I spoke with Rice this morning and they are saying that the checks are delayed due to the generic excuse of "system errors", now. I reminded them that landowners had been assured that they would be mailed by the end of last week and they said 'yeah, we tried but just couldn't get them out by then but they will be out by Friday, the 24th'. Also added that for some people, this is like not getting a paycheck as they rely on the monthly payments to which she said she understood. I told her that I would pass the info on; that checks would definitely be out by the 24th. Within a few mins I also received an email reply that said much the same thing, adding that if you have direct deposit the funds would be deposited 24 hrs after the checks were mailed. (It didn't mention system errors). Not a happy landowner, here. 2 weeks late is inexcusable, particularly when they have consistently been paid one week early, prior, making it 3 wks, in reality. Guess we will see.
IF THEY (RICE) TOLD YOU THEY WERE SENDING CKS OUT ON THE 24 FRIDAY AND DIRECT DEPOSIT 24 HRS LATER, NEXT DAY THATS A LIE BANKS DONT EXCEPT DIRECT DEPOSITS ON SAT.
This November it will be 4 years I have been leased with Rice and no drilling. The closest well is James Rice 1H . Becoming discouraged. Beginning to feel like they just had us sign a lease so other energy companies would not lease it. Any info? Thanks. Debra Pennell
It is not 3 weeks "in reality," it is 2 weeks. If they have been paying you one week early, great, but you can't really count that one week against them when they are late. I hope you all get paid soon though, I could live with a few weeks but months is ridiculous.
G.H., You are correct. It is not 3 wks in actuality. When I mentioned 3 wks, it was in conjunction with being used to the schedule of getting pymts the end of the 1st wk of the month, which was, in reality, a week early by their pymt schedules. As it is, the pymt was ACTUALLY only 1 wk late since it was "due" mid-month and received on the 21st/22nd. I think the main problem was lack of communication by Rice to the royalty/landowners when they knew the pymts would be late. They waited too long to send out bulk emails notifying them that there was a system issue and they would be late. When they KNEW that all were accustomed to receiving pymts the end of the 1st wk of the month - early or not - they should have known that panic would set in when there was no pymt (or explanation) more than a week later.
I see, and I agree with you for the most part. I am not trying to make excuses for them being late, all I was trying to say was that you can't count that one week that they normally pay ahead of time against them, I think we are on the same page. I wish my royalties were enough to consider relying upon them as a major/main source of income, but they are not, so I do not panic when they are a little late, as long as it's not months... so I guess I'm just coming from a different point of view.
Received my emailed royalty statement from Rice this evening and was happy with the sale price for Dec 2016 production, at $2.72, particularly when we only got $1.75 for Nov 2016. Hope all receive their statements and checks soon, as well.
I am participating in a Gulfport/Rice joint venture Unit. The unit had first sale in July 2016. We have been paid by Gulfport for the 2016 production months of July, August, September, October, November and December. It has been 9 months since first sale and we have received NO royalty payments from Rice Energy. Gulfport has been more responsive to information requests and timely on fulfilling royalty commitments. Rice Energy has violated the provisions of the O/G lease, and has provided no clear or concise answer in why the contract payments have not been made timely. Gulfport has been able to fulfill their contractual obligations to the royalty owners for the last 6+ months without issues.
Past time to issue the Certified mail.
My situation is opposite. I am leased with Rice but have just started receiving payments also from Gulfport. Production began in April 2016 and we started receiving payments in July 2016 from Rice. Gulfport was way behind in paperwork and we just got the DO for them last month; they owe me for two units backdated to April 2016. So far I've only received one check from Gulfport for one unit up to Dec. 2016.
My communication with Rice has always been satisfactory up until this dilemma with late royalties for Dec. 2016; however I feel like it took a little more effort to get answers from Gulfport.
To clarify my previous comment, neither company has been timely, but Gulfport has been more responsive than Rice Energy.
I have ownership interest in three different Gulfport / Rice Joint venture units, in Washington Township. All of the units have been in production since summer 2016. I have only received payment from Gulfport on two of the units. I am still waiting for the 3rd unit to be included in the monthly payments from Gulfport.
All the Division Orders have been signed with Gulfport.
I have signed the Rice Energy Division Orders on two of the units but I am still waiting for a Division Order to be issued from Rice on the 3rd unit. (In production since July 2016)
We are in a joint Gulfport/Rice unit (George) in Washington Twp that had first sales in Aug 2016. We finally recieved a divison order from Gulfport about two weeks ago and are hoping for a check from them in the next 30 days. Is that resonable? We were surprised to learn that we should expect another Division Order from Rice on their portion of the well. Does anyone have a contact for someone at Rice that I can check with? I'm just surprised that 7 months after first sale we still haven't seen the DO yet?
I just use the online "contact us" form for Rice and they are good about responding. It depends when you got your DO returned as to when you get a check, I believe. I contacted Gulfport again today and they should be mailing out checks for January by the last business day of the month, as I was told, to be received by mid April.
I did not know when I signed with Rice that Gulfport had any dealing with the units I am in either...but I guess it is a good thing.
I took your advice and sent an email through the contact us tab from their website. While I was impressed with how fast they responded, I felt like the reply was lacking in useful information...
"Thank you for inquiring with Rice Energy. Please be advise that correspondence for George Unit has not finalized and you will be notified when the Division Orders are prepared."
That's pretty much what I got when I contacted Gulfport once I learned I should be collecting from both companies. One company was always waiting on the other to do their part. Kind of a hassle and long waiting game. Hope you get your answers soon.